Mozilla

Content, Ads, Caution

February 13th, 2014

I’m starting with content but please rest assured I’ll get to the topic of ads and revenue.

In the early days of Firefox we were very careful not to offer content to our users.  Firefox came out of a world in which both Netscape/AOL (the alma mater of many early Mozillians) and Microsoft had valued their content and revenue sources over the user experience.  Those of us from Netscape/AOL had seen features, bookmarks, tabs, and other irritants added to the product to generate revenue.   We’d seen Mozilla code subsequently “enhanced” with these features.

And so we have a very strong, very negative reaction to any activities that even remotely remind us of this approach to product.  That’s good.

This reaction somehow became synonymous with other approaches that are not necessarily so helpful.  For a number of  years we refused to have any relationship with our users beyond we provide software and they use it.  We resisted offering content unless it came directly from an explicit user action.  This made sense at first when the web was so young.  But over the years many people have come to expect and want their software to do things on their behalf, to take note of what one has done before and do something useful with it.

In the last few years we’ve begun to respond to this.  We’re careful about it because the DNA is based on products serving users.  Every time we offer something to our users we question ourselves rigorously about the motivations for that offer.  Are we sure it’s the most value we can provide to our users? Are we sure, doubly-sure, we’re not fooling ourselves?  Sometimes my commercial colleagues laugh at me for the amount of real estate we leave unmonitored or the revenue opportunities we decline.

So we look at the Tiles and wonder if we can do more for people.    We think we can.  I’ve heard some people say they still don’t want any content offered.  They want their experience to be new, to be the same as it was the day they installed the browser, the same as anyone else might experience.  I understand this view, and think it’s not the default most people are choosing.  We think we can offer people useful content in the Tiles.

When we have ideas about how content might be useful to people, we look at whether there is a revenue possibility, and if that would annoy people or bring something potentially useful.  Ads in search turn out to be useful.  The gist  of the Tiles idea is that we would include something like 9 Tiles on a page, and that 2 or 3 of them would be sponsored — aka “ads.”  So to explicitly address the question of whether sponsored tiles (aka “ads”) could be included as part of a content offering, the answer is yes.

These sponsored results/ ads would not have tracking features.

Why would we include any sponsored results?  If the Tiles are useful to people then we’ll generate value.  That generates revenue that supports the Mozilla project.   So to explicitly address the question of whether we care about generating revenue and sustaining Mozilla’s work, the answer is yes.  In fact, many of us feel responsible to do exactly this.

Pretty much anytime we talk about revenue at Mozilla people get suspicious.  Mozillians get suspicious, and our supporters get suspicious.  There’s some value in that, as it reinforces our commitment to user experience and providing value to our users.  There’s some drawbacks to this as well, however.  I’ll be talking with Mozillians tomorrow and in the coming days on these topics in more detail.

101 comments for “Content, Ads, Caution”

  1. 1

    T Harris said on February 15th, 2014 at 10:03 am:

    I made Firefox my default browser because of the belief that Mozilla had the users best interests at heart and I that was strengthened when the stand was taken against the advertisers.

    And while I fully understand sustainability concerns, I can’t help but feel this shift sounds an awful lot the familiar set up for user behavior data mining done by Facebook and so many others with the reasoning of delivering “useful content” (targeted ads). Something I am happy to be without (as much as possible) and again why I chose FF (along with Adblock+, NoScript, etc.).

    So, my big questions are:
    1) Will users be able to opt-out of the new feature when it goes live?
    2) If so, will it be easy to do for casual users or require an about:config tweak?

  2. 2

    David said on February 15th, 2014 at 1:43 pm:

    ~ Addition to my earlier post (which is still awaiting moderation after more than 24 hours): Reading more stories, and linking back to bits that I missed or glossed over:

    Mitchell’s statement:
    “The gist of the Tiles idea is that we would include something like 9 Tiles on a page, and that 2 or 3 of them would be sponsored — aka “ads.””

    Seems to verify the apparent intent that these will eventually not merely be fillers in blank areas for new users. Clearly this is intended as a permanent fixture of the new tab/tiles page (as hinted at by other statements noted earlier). It also ties in with the “eventually” that David Rajchenbach-Teller noted regarding removal of these ads in favor of the user’s own most visited sites (ie: what they currently get). Clearly that’s a long-term “eventually”, not a short-term “eventually”.

    From an article at SmartCompany (http://www.smartcompany.com.au/technology/35611-mozilla-founder-mitchell-baker-defends-controversial-decision-to-put-paid-ads-in-firefox-following-user-backlash.html):

    “In a second statement, [legal council] Dixon-Thayer says the advertisements will “add value” to the user experience and help to open up the web.”

    The question of whether the ads will “add value” is certainly a very debatable topic, but I can’t for the life of me figure out how one could propose that these ads would “open up the web”. These aren’t web standards, unencumbered codecs, or other such things where they clearly provide greater access and interoperability for less restricted use of the web. They’re ads. Under what possible definition of “open up the web” can you consider this a valid assertion?

    Further comments from Dixon-Thayer end with:
    “Our initiatives are always aimed at maximizing our mission of making the Web open and accessible.”

    Once again, under what twisted reading of that mission statement can you assert that adding ads does that?

    Note: This has absolutely nothing to do with the validity of using advertising as a revenue source. This is solely about the assertion that adding advertisements specifically fulfills that mission statement.

  3. 3

    El-D said on February 15th, 2014 at 9:17 pm:

    There seems to be two camps of people who are most vocally against this: selfish people who don’t care about Mozilla, just Mozilla’s “mission” (which to them is to serve their needs for free somehow), and people who are genuinely concerned that this is a slippery slope type of thing and don’t realize that it’s too late – Google already has its claws in Firefox’s revenue.

    It’s too late, guys. Firefox needs revenue. If you don’t like it being from Google, it will have to come from elsewhere. If you think a freemium model would work to support them, you’re dreaming. Ditto if you think a donation drive would be able to raise the funds necessary to keep it going. Mozilla isn’t a small company, and the more we demand of it (FirefoxOS, Android versions, etc) the more revenue they need to keep it going. Unless, of course, you’re still one of those wonderfully naive people who think that FOSS products of this caliber can be sustained on the generous contributions of volunteers alone.

    Sometimes I think the most vocal detractors of these ideas think that just shouting loudly will solve things, not realizing that we live in a place called reality. Sometimes there will be marketing involved. Sometimes things like revenue are important. Pretending they’re unnecessary corruptions of ideals is a cute idea if you’re a teenager, but in the real world we have to balance our ideals with reality. Unless you’re able to conjure up a better idea that will work, all your negativity will do is keep you miserable no matter which browser you threaten to switch to.

  4. 4

    Claudia said on February 16th, 2014 at 6:04 am:

    I would much rather pay for Firefox than have ads in my browser. I would even pay a monthly subscription.

    If you go ahead with this and don’t give us an option to opt out, I will stop using Firefox and I will tell my friends and family to do the same.

  5. 5

    Anonymous said on February 16th, 2014 at 8:56 am:

    “But over the years many people have come to expect and want their software to do things on their behalf, to take note of what one has done before and do something useful with it.”

    Of course! I wish every software I have installed would transform into AdWare! Because it’s so useful!

  6. 6

    Anonymous said on February 16th, 2014 at 9:59 am:

    The day I see this in Firefox is the day I change my browser to something else, hell at this point even IE has proper HTML5/CSS3 support and pretty much everything Firefox does.

  7. 7

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  8. 8

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  9. 9

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  11. 11

    m12345678 said on February 16th, 2014 at 12:13 pm:

    ” We think we can offer people useful content in the Tiles.”

    IMHO, ads are no “usefull” content – neither in the tiles nor on websites.

  12. 12

    John Fenderson said on February 16th, 2014 at 1:49 pm:

    @Mitchell Baker comment 28:

    Actually, I do consider search suggestions to be content pushed at me, and I turn them off.

    I don’t find the tiles stuff useful and don’t look at or use them myself, so it really doesn’t matter to me if there’s ads there or not.

    It does say something about Mozilla, though, that makes me a little nervous. It might not be fair, it might be pure guilt by association, but for me and a lot of people, the mere presence of ads implies two thing: that you’re being tracked for those ads, and that the outfit who is carrying the ads is a little less worthy of respect for it. You lie down with dogs, and all that. 100% of the time, I’d rather pay money than have ads.

    There is a lot of hyperbolic reaction about this, and I suspect the “guilt by association” thing has more to do with it than anything else. It would be truly terrible if Mozilla started acting like advertising agencies do, and although they aren’t yet, there is a lot of justifiable fear that this is the first step on that path.

  13. 13

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  18. 18

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  19. 19

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  20. 20

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  21. 21

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  22. 22

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  23. 23

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  24. 24

    Dirk said on February 17th, 2014 at 12:25 am:

    “to take note of what one has done before and do something useful with it” – so the sponsored ads won’t have tracking code, but mozilla tracks my usage so that they can present these ads?

  25. 25

    OverStateObvious said on February 17th, 2014 at 12:44 am:

    People…please, you are failing to see what is realing going on here?? Remeber, Mozilla Firefox gets a large portion of there funding from, who??? Oh yes Gov-oogle, well of course it does. The nudges are already under way, then comes the pushes and then the shoves.

    Don’t you realize you are already supposed to be using Gov-oogle’s Chrome!? 😉 My, my, my silly rabbits tricks are for kids. This is all being done on purpose, start disliking Firefox, then hate it, then jump to Chrome and then enjoy the advantage of being spied on more, than you already are. Wake up…wake up dead man.

    If there is a day, when you can only choose to use a Chrome type of browser, then my days of surfing or using the web are long done/over. For me it is ok, because I am NOT joined at the hip to the web. For some, it may be like trying to overcome some kind of addiction. For those, my advice is to start weening yourselves off now. Just my 2 bits. YMMV of course.

    **NOT FUD, just able to read the writing on the wall. Consider it a friendly awareness tip.

  26. 26

    Peter said on February 17th, 2014 at 12:58 am:

    I can’t really ad to the discussion, that’s going on here. But please consider that I as a quite typicall German Firefox user already have a hard time defending FF in front of my peers (programmers and everyday users alike). The moment that FF will start placing adds in new tabs or anywhere else I’m gone as a user and – considering I’m “the computer guy” to my family and many friends – a dozen other users as well.
    I understand Mozilla needs their funds, but what for, if you lose even more users than you do anyway?
    I think this would be a major strategic mistake and I would urge you to check, how many FF users actually would be okay with this, so I can keep my beloved and add-free FF and you keep yourself an important player in the browser market.

  27. 27

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  28. 28

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  29. 29

    Andrew said on February 17th, 2014 at 4:04 am:

    Anyone needs to stop Mitchell Baker destroying Mozilla:

    First the idiotic rolling releases of Firefox, making it impossible to use in a bigger organisation.
    Second the death of Thunderbird, which needs to be improved with calendar functions and should get rid of tabs, which fits in a webbroser context, but not in an email client.
    Third including Spyware in Firefox – named “Health Report”
    Fourth starting an idiotic Firefox OS – nobody is interested in
    Fifth including advertisement in Firefox.

    Companies not hearing to their customers will vanish – as usual.

    Just get rid of her and Asa Dotzler. That would be the biggest step forward for Mozilla since they started to do weired stuff five years ago.

    Andrew

  30. 30

    Foxie said on February 17th, 2014 at 4:06 am:

    getfirefox.com -> “Proudly non-profit”

  31. 31

    J.S. said on February 17th, 2014 at 4:31 am:

    Thanks for making Firefox continually worse. Now with this latest brainchild, either it will be possible to disable those ads or I will definitely and simply stop using Firefox. Not that big loss in the meantime anyways.
    Probably time to go back to Seamonkey http://www.seamonkey-project.org/

  32. 32

    Moudy said on February 17th, 2014 at 5:16 am:

    Mrs. Baker is wrong. For me it is infinitely more importand that the Browser does what I want it to do and not that the Browser does something for me unbidden. Why do not make this feature optional, i.e. a switch on/off so that the unser can decide wether he wants it or not.

  33. 33

    Davebo said on February 17th, 2014 at 5:27 am:

    I look forward with great interest in seeing how far firefox falls in market share when the knowledgeable folks leave. It’s going to be quite a noticeable drop!

    I’m rigging up a Palemoon install now, as I do not like the totalitarian approach mozilla has taken the past few years. I think that’s the way ahead, to continue the original Mosaic browser experience.

  34. 34

    Mark said on February 17th, 2014 at 8:57 am:

    I don’t have any problem with Mozilla trying to raise product-sustaining revenue through advertising, provided the entire process is and remains above-board. Currently, and particularly in the tech industry, there is a revolting openness to allowing advertisers to co-opt and corrupt the mediums they use to connect with customers. From so-called “product placement” in movies and television to “sponsored content” on internet sites, advertisers are always seeking to present their ads as anything but ads — something that can only be accomplished with the willing participation and capitulation of those mediums.

    Mozilla has a good and deserved reputation for ethical behavior. If you want to raise money by selling advertising space on your products there’s nothing wrong with doing so as long as you refuse to allow advertisers to deceive or obscure their intent. In the past this end was accomplished by having separate advertising and editorial staffs, and I see no reason why that can’t still work today. Decide which spaces are available to advertisers, tell them what the rates are for those spaces, and sell the spaces blindly according to pre-established guidelines for the type of content/advertising you are willing to accept. (Clothing yes, political ads no, etc.)

    As to tracking individual users or allowing advertisers to access user data, you should be more aggressive and up front that you are never going to allow this under any circumstance, including the possible failure of Mozilla as an organization. That is the one aspect of your branding that you must never corrupt, and I think you can leverage that position to advantage — particularly when almost every other company is more than willing to exploit their own customers for profit. You will have some advertisers who will not agree to those terms, but those are advertisers you don’t want anyway. The ones you do want are simply interested in getting the word out about their products in an honest way, just as Mozilla has always tried to do.

    So: no more talk about “Directory Tiles” or “customer value”. Customers get more “value” jammed down their throats in a day than they can stand, and they know they’re being relentlessly and unfairly targeted by companies with products to sell. Be honest, open and up-front, and act in the best interests of your users. Over time, I think more people are becoming interested in companies that are willing to do that, and as a result Mozilla is well positioned to demonstrate that responsible technology can succeed in the marketplace.

  35. 35

    Flakfizer said on February 17th, 2014 at 10:13 am:

    The first time i see an advert in Firefox will be the last time i use Firefox.

  36. 36

    John Hesling (John99) said on February 17th, 2014 at 11:45 am:

    This comment can not get past moderation on our Mozilla blog
    https://blog.mozilla.org/advancingcontent/2014/02/13/more-details-on-directory-tiles/

    I am trying to ask about the statement in that blog:

    How long will a user see Directory Tiles after they start using Firefox
    Our frecency algorithm takes about 30 days of normal browsing behavior to update Tiles.
    At that point the user will start seeing content that reflects the sites they’ve recently and frequently visited.

    I suggest it may be more accurate to say instead:

    Our frecency algorithm will be deliberately hobbled so that users must wait 30 days before tile content reflects browsing habits instead of sponsored sites.

    I base that on a quick check of the current position:

    I have just tried with a recent nightly. fresh profile. open a few tabs, close and reopen and tiles are already loading my browsing content related results. That took a good few seconds not 30 days.

    I would be interested in clarification of the basis for the original statement. I did originally ask on Sumo where Mozilla staff confirmed asking in the blog may get an answer (see https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/forums/contributors/709999?last=57531&page=2#post-57531)

  37. 37

    Brian said on February 17th, 2014 at 7:23 pm:

    Hey Mitchell Baker, advertisement is not the way to generate revenue when you’re a web company. You should focus your efforts on creating freemium/paid services that actually enhances your products, not degrading it.

    Ideas:
    – 25 GB Mozilla Sync – Sync between all your local files on Firefox browsers get additional space for an annual fee
    – Firefox Web App Online Development – Allow web developers to develop apps that are stored in Mozilla’s servers for an annual or data per use rate
    – Firefox Remote Devices – Get access to all your Firefox enabled devices wherever you go

    Get competitive and study your competition better. Other wise, keep losing your grounds.

  38. 38

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  39. 39

    zelok said on February 18th, 2014 at 4:33 am:

    Mitchell,
    As you can see these news are very worryingsome and alarming to many of your users. There are a lot of important projects, such as the freedom of speech in the age of computer networks, on which FF has greatly, though maybe indirectly influenced. I’m not as much worrying about your salary, you sure know your stuff, but I’m afraid your visions are in conflict with your environment, userbase views and with the projects that rely on FF. It’d be just another web browser, providing no unique value to its users. Is this an ultimate goal? Not only that, but it could have a shattering effect on the whole society and even democracy.

  40. 40

    Aldi said on February 18th, 2014 at 7:27 am:

    I don’t really mind having ads as long as they are not too disruptive and are relevant. I’m aware, though, that this may need some degrees of tracking. However, to state that one will leave Firefox because of the ads seem somewhat hypocritical as I’m sure most of us watch TV and TV shows mostly have ads. And this does not stop them from watching TV. So why stop using FF for this reason alone?

  41. 41

    spax said on February 18th, 2014 at 11:04 am:

    With all due respect, I hear Google talking.

    If you really want to help users, give them what they want – or what not.
    There’s a reason quite some still refuse to using Chrome or IE.
    So to best serve us, give us back control of what we get and not get us spammed with privacy issues and exploitation entry points against our will.
    Why not offering an installation menu, which lets people choose from pluggable modules, such as:

    – ads (I don’t want those for sure)
    – social API
    – sync API
    – observer API
    – media API, e.g. for peer-to-peer cons
    – geo localization
    – anti-phishing
    – google plugins and search engine

    Provide default settings that protect users’s privacy, not counterparts it:
    – deleting cookies on exit / expiring after 30 days
    – dom.storage = disabled
    – visited links history = disabled
    – geo localization = disabled
    – social api = disabled

    Provide means to effectively control and filter active and tracking content, as in NoScript.
    No to adding exceptions to filtering in the FF registry for companies.
    Block websites from extracting non-vital system information like installed fonts or add-ons.
    Implement latest encryption protocols and use it by default… get the picture?

    If we have learned anything from recent history, we react on that and preserve freedom of choice and fight to get back our privacy!

    Other from that, we can switch to Chrome right away, it won’t matter anymore.

  42. 42

    Preeti Raghunath said on February 18th, 2014 at 3:47 pm:

    This is a good plan to help with “stickiness” that our partners have been asking for. The phone users will be happy with this approach

  43. 43

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  44. 44

    spax said on February 19th, 2014 at 9:12 am:

    “I’m sure most of us watch TV and TV shows mostly have ads. And this does not stop them from watching TV. So why stop using FF for this reason alone?”

    Already we have to install additional plugins and wade through the FF registry to counter the most obvious evils of FF, regarding privacy, security and speed. By hardcoding commercial cruft it’s only gonna get worse and reduce the personal choice options even more.
    FF has a great add-on interface, and a huge repository, so developers and users should use it!

    If Mozilla wants higher revenues, they should sell merchandising stuff or place Ads on their website, not in the code! Google and Facebook fanboys should go for Chrome and everybody will be happy. Imo, if FF tries to beat Google Chrome on their field, it will get obsolete, just like Opera. FF is targetting at a different user base, too.

  45. 45

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  46. 46

    OverStateObvious said on February 19th, 2014 at 3:47 pm:

    In reference to my previous comment, my bottom line is I desire other alternatives to Gov-oogle, as much as possible. That being said, my exception (personally) where IMO would find these ad/links in the tab/speed dial page, to be reasonable IF (big if) this was in response to Gov-oogle ending all contracts and ties with Mozilla.

    I then would almost be happy for these ads (if done proper, with privacy in mind), because I do understand Mozilla does needs and deserves funding, to continue with all there wonderful projects: Thunderbird, Gecko engine, Rust, etc.

    In conclusion, no ties to Gov-oogle=great, then other ways to fund projects is to be expected. FOSS all the way. I do respect all the work and efforts put into all the projects by the whole Mozilla Team. 🙂

    **For those interested in a Mozilla/Firefox fork, there is an excellent one at http://www.palemoon.org/

  47. 47

    Andrew Raisbeck said on February 19th, 2014 at 4:19 pm:

    How would ‘sponsored tiles’ affect those of us who use a Speed Dial add on?
    I’m guessing that the extension would overlay them.
    Not sure I’m totally ok with the idea of ‘sponsored’ or ‘suggested’ ads on my browser, but that’s how Opera browser worked when it was relevant, but Mozilla does need to raise funds to keep the browser going, and in many ways that overview is fairly good going.
    If any one follows the Pale Moon browser link, be aware that there are no add ons with the browser.
    I’m inerested though in the fact that a lot of people seem to have problems with Firefox 28 upwards opening as far as the task manager is concerned, but the browser window doesn’t open.
    Is anyone investigating?
    Overall though, Firefox is an absolute joy to use and the only real choice

  48. 48

    David said on February 19th, 2014 at 8:46 pm:

    5 days awaiting moderation on my first post. I guess no one really cares to deal with the post, or address the issues.

    Since my second post was posted immediately, I’ll assume the first post fell under some automatic restriction. As such I’ll just briefly cover the points I brought up in the original post, and not include links to the original sources that I referenced.

    1) The Wall Street Journal stated that news stories could be included in the ads. News stories seem significantly more targeted than simple site ads (eg: Facebook, Amazon, etc). That requires both more analysis of user habits, and more details that Mozilla has to know about its users.

    2) Darren Herman (the poster of the original blog that released this news) stated at the IAB conference that “Mozilla hasn’t made a final decision on how to treat third-party tracking technologies”, and that “it is investigating solutions such as unique identifiers from Apple and Google as well as other third parties.” This is in direct contradiction to what Mitchell stated in her blog: “These sponsored results/ads would not have tracking features.”

    3) Mozilla’s so-called “User Personalization” system that they started floating last year very specifically monitors and tracks user activity. As it appears to be a general program significantly associated with this new ad system (though they may be developed and implemented separately), it appears to fly in the face of Mitchell’s above statement regarding tracking features.

    Overall, the “no tracking” assurance feels slightly disingenuous.

    4) Mitchell Baker at least acknowledges that these are indeed ads, vs the weaselly semantics-dodging of Benjamin Kerensa.

    5) The initial announcement stated that these ads are only being provided to first-time users, however additional information since then counters that. It’s stated that it’s a revenue system that will “start slow”, thus implying that it will increase its targeted coverage. Additional descriptions also state that 2-3 panels will be used for ads, with only vague hints that they might go away after frequency tracking in the browser fills up the available slots (a process said to take at least 30 days).

    6) The follow-up comment #54 that I made already covers the details about the marketing-speak definition-twisting that somehow defines ads as something that makes the web more open and accessible.

    7) Mitchell’s statement regarding Firefox OS as being “extremely expensive” begs the question of the value that Firefox OS actually brings to the web. From my limited perspective, all that I can see in it is a resource drain that has near non-existent marketshare, and is the source of a “rob Peter to pay Paul” system draining from other Mozilla projects (and specifically, become an impetus for needing to add ads to existing products).

    Note that it still seems like a very ‘cool’ project to work on, but how much real value does it have relative to its costs? Every actual hands-on review of it that I’ve read (as opposed to just press releases and such) have been extremely negative about it, even considering its current developmental level.

    Also note that there was no mention of supposed “financial independence”, as mentioned by a poster in the .planning and .governance newsgroups, so all the public discussion is not being guided by that as any sort of fundamental reason. What -is- being said implies something else entirely.

  49. 49

    Fran said on February 19th, 2014 at 11:48 pm:

    If Mozilla is really concerned about giving value to users, why gut the interface? That is making a lot of people really unhappy. Many have refused to update, or have gone to other browsers because of that.
    I wonder how long it will be before the option to change the behaviour of new tabs is removed, like other options that have been chopped? Then those who clear the cache and the history at the end of a browsing session will have no choice but to see the ads on new tabs (unless they make a habit of loading 9 pages from bookmarks before opening a new tab).

  50. 50

    ransack said on February 26th, 2014 at 1:38 am:

    “it is good for each and every one who is enjoying #mozilla”

    Wll, I’m not every one. Anyway, this just a blog, no open discussion with open decisions.
    It’s just a Google fan’s platform who would switch to Chrome any day (maybe they should?).
    Anybody thinking about sueing Mozilla for claiming to be “non-profit” organization?
    Selling user behavior data like Google does is EVIL and IS commercial.
    We should start a crowd-funding campaign on that right away…

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